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So appreciate these conversations. Am in the middle of listening to them.

As a nurse, I was witness to Catholic hospitals refusing chaplain (priestly) visitation of patients who needed spiritual care and advocacy. They died without the sacraments. If the church would have spoken out against these abuses, it would have assisted the voices of nurses who were clamoring for ethics conferences on these patients., which were flatly denied, over and over again. These patients were being killed through things such as systematic dehydration, inappropriate drugs, the denial of common medications (high dose steroids) etc.. The lack of a faithful witness of the church was acutely felt by nurses everywhere, as it diminished our voices.

A few patients were saved by courageous, stalwart family members or small networks of people who worked hard to get these patients out of the hospitals. Never in my life, did I imagine that I would be 'standing alone' as a nurse, as a person of science without the full support of the church of Christ, against these types of evils. But it is what has developed.

As clinicians who are still needing to protect children from medical experimentation, the seeming paralysis of the church, remains a significant problem for us. For those of us who make covenantal vows at baptisms, such as in the Reformed churches--we are wearing out the patience of our elders in trying to engage them to see the dangers to the body of Christ. The 'fire in our bellies' is unextinguishable on this issue.

They wish we would just be quiet and move on. People want 'COVID to be over'. If the public health emergency were lifted and these injectables were not now on the CDC Recommended Childhood schedule of vaccines, then we could move on, gladly. However, as things stand, we are covenantally bound to do everything possible to resist this criminality.

The church is in great need of practical, executable wisdom in relation to matters of so called 'public health'. The weaponization of public health is a well-documented phenomenon. With careful reflection and good communication, we can teach the body of Christ how to distinguish between when public health is shifting to becoming an idol factory and when we can see sound policy.

I believe the idol making was apparent if you were reading carefully:

I include an excerpt from the Nature article, co-authored by Fauci and Collins, et al from May, 2020, describing their hopes for effective vaccine development. As you read the excerpt below: Remember that in May, 2020; American ICUs were still refusing to use high dose steroids, even though it well documented in the scientific literature and even in wikipedia, that high dose steroids were effective in treating SARS. There was an urgent need for treatment for dying people in May, 2020. My estimate is that 50,000 Americans died unnecessarily in the spring of 2020 due to the lack of steroids,. Though used for decades to suppress overreactive immune responses (think of poison-ivy....) the ICU docs categorically did not use them until after the Recovery Trial preliminary results came out in June, 2020. All the while, Fauci/Collins, et al. were scheming about vaccines... here:

"There is an unprecedented need to manufacture and distribute enough safe and effective vaccine to immunize an extraordinarily large number of individuals in order to protect the entire global community from the continued threat of morbidity and mortality from severe acute respiratory syndrome–coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). The global need for vaccine and the wide geographic diversity of the pandemic require more than one effective vaccine approach."

Biblically minded people are able to percieve the megalomanical nature of the proposition above. ("Why do the peoples imagine a vain thing?" Psalm 2) It is not difficult to perceive the arrogance here. Fauci and Collins describing their confidence to solve this problem for the WHOLE world, at the point of a needle of their design. Also it is not difficult to see that they were never interested in the protection of the persons who were dying all over the country while they penned these words.

In contrast, Harvey Risch, MD warned that same month, that without early treatment, another 100,000 Americans would die. We can see in his paper, an urgent concern for the protection of human life, as he advocates for outpatient treatment (based upon review of the available evidence of common, inexpensive medications) to be widely adopted. He describes that five months into the 'pandemic' we still only had 'hospitalization' as an option. At this time the CDC was advising everyone to stay home and not seek care at a hospital until their lips were turning blue. It does not take a PhD education for the body of Christ to realize that between these two proposed strategies, Dr. Risch's strategy was the one that was most concerned about the dying people right in front of us and the other strategy sounded like it came from a sci-fi movie. Since when in human history was it wise to wait as long as possible to seek help for a potentially deadly disease? And since when in human history has the house of medicine every devised any medical treatment that was so perfect that it was capable of meeting the needs of EVERY person on the planet? This defies biological diversity.

These are common sense axes around which the body of Christ could have mobilized. It felt to me, however, as all this 'went down' that the church was 'captured' in a similar way to the 'regulatory capture' that Korey, Latypova and others have documented.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546206/pdf/kwaa093.pdf

I believe James 3 gives a profile of both wisdom from above and so called 'wisdom' that provides discernment for all believers. When we could read reports of Collins denigrating scientists like Jay Bhattacharya, Sunetra Gupta and Martin Kulsdorf with terms like 'fringe epidemiologists'; we can see that such a person, who calls himself a Christian, fits into a category that does not reflect the wisdom of a believer:

"Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and [k]selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, [l]natural, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and [m]selfish ambition exist, [n]there is disorder and every evil thing."

Hopefully, you have ignited the beginning of a conversation that will serve the body of Christ in all places that have been touched by this madness. Carol Crevier, RN MPH

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Mar 28, 2023Liked by Curtis Meliefste

Incredible and very necessary conversations that need to be had and I'm deeply grateful. Thank you!

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I am agnostic. This was a very interesting conversation. Thank you. I think at the very least faith leaders should make it incumbent on themselves to investigate the facts by insisting on hearing all credentialed perspectives. Instead, church leaders relinquished their responsibilities to government "authorities" and ended up worshiping at the alter of technocracy. If debate was allowed, if it was insisted on by the people and especially leaders of all fields, things would not have happen the way they did.

And then there was, for many churches, the temptation of money through the CARES Act. I hope you get into that in part 2.

Meantime, I'm sending this to my mother. She is a born again christian who, unlike her friends, rejected the covid narrative. She's a healthy 80 year old who never got ill, and who wouldn't think of getting jabbed. She has her faith in God, and her HCQ and IVM ready to go.

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Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful discussion. However, the damage done by the Fauci protocols for Covid treatment in hospitals is still killing many patients. Patients who come to

hospitals are given the fake PCR test. The inventor of the test said it should never be used for

diagnosis. A high cycle is used for the test which then gives a positive result always. The patient

is diagnosed with Covid. Isolated from visitors. Given remdesivir which causes problems requiring

a ventilator to be used. Denied water and food they die within days. The hospital and doctors are

given up to $200,000 in bonuses for diagnosing Covid, following the above Fauci protocols and

killing the patient.

The preceding Fauci protocols with bonuses are still being used by many hospitals. Many doctor and nurse whistleblowers have made videos starting in 2020 about the lethal Fauci protocols. Christian

pastors should be protesting these protocols.

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The double meaning of the title didn't click for me until the last couple minutes of the episode. Great discussion.

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Thank you for this conversation. I am beyond disappointed in the vast majority of church leadership, many using scripture to urge, if not coerce, people into getting the vaccine. The data is now clear that the vaccines are not “safe or effective” and are now on the vaccine schedule for children so harm is still being done!

Where are those church leaders now?

They could be modeling to the world what true forgiveness looks like, not the “fake ask” for amnesty/forgiveness in the Atlantic article we’ve all read. They should be publicly repenting and asking for forgiveness to those harmed by taking their ill-advised advise. Ill-advised because they bought into the one-size fits all narrative rather than demanding that iron sharpen iron. They forgot about the history of christians being on the frontline helping during plagues … instead, not only did they not help but most closed the doors to their churches.

If they repent they could join in the fight demanding that the voices of questioning doctors and scientists that were shut down by the likes of Drs Fauci and Collins (a self professes christian) now be heard. They could provide witness to help those complicit in one way or another to step forward and repent.

I am incredibly thankful for the brave doctors, like Dr Kheriaty, and other scientists/nurses/journalists, etc that put their careers on the line to speak truth to power and kept the rest of us sane!

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I link to this top-notch, very thought-provoking and humbling podcast, over at my site, pairing it with a recent review of a book by anti-lockdown leftists. https://pomocon.substack.com/p/lockdown-regrets-christian-and-leftist Bravo, all!

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